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Traders: We need more police

11:19am Tuesday 8th April 2008

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Business owners have expressed fears that the recent stabbings in the town centre will affect trade in Croydon.

They are calling for more police on the streets to help stem the flow of blood from violent teenage crime.

“This kind of incident is bad for the whole of Croydon as it supports the stereotype of it being a high crime location, while in reality it is one of the safest boroughs in London. Perception is everything.”

Andrew Bauer

Daniel Dokubo, 19, was stabbed in the chest near the Whitgift Centre last Tuesday just before 10am and staggered through the town centre with a balde still in his chest before collapsing outside Lunar House in Wellesley Road.

A week earlier a 16-year-old was stabbed after leaving youth court in Barclay Road. Both were recovering.

Croydon's Business Improvement District (BID) team was recently forced to pay for extra policing in the town centre after its repeated calls for more officers were turned down by borough commander Mark Gore.

It now wants more to be done to help rid Croydon of serious crimes which are blighting its reputation and young people.

Andrew Bauer, manager at the Whitgift Centre, said: "This kind of incident is bad for the whole of Croydon as it supports the stereotype of it being a high crime location, while in reality it is one of the safest boroughs in London. Perception is everything."

Max Menon, finance director at Allders department store in North End and an influential member of the BID board, said police had done well in their attempt to remove gangs from the streets.

But he added: "We are concerned Croydon is becoming a high crime area even though it is one of the safest boroughs in London.

"There needs to be a higher presence of police on the streets, if you see a policeman, you are not likely to stab someone. This is affecting businesses because of the public's perception of crime, the police need to be visible so shoppers feel safer."

Matthew Sims, general manager of the Croydon Chamber of Commerce, said violent crimes were "givng Croydon a bad name".

He added: "Croydon BID need to continue its work to fight and improve the area's image. Shoppers are being put off to a certain degree because of the perception of crime.

"Police and community support officers are doing a very good job in the town centre, they are visible and have a strong role. But this is real life, it's not acceptable."

A police spokeswoman said: "Over recent years the number of police officers and PCSOs in Croydon town centre has continued to be increased.

"With the introduction of the Local Authority Neighbourhood Enforcement Officers in the borough, the local police will continue to work in partnership to reduce crime and make everyone who lives, works or visits the borough to feel safer."

  • What do you think? Are there enough police on the streets? Post your comments below.
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Your Say YourCroydon Guardian

Bob Peel, Croydon says...
1:47pm Tue 8 Apr 08

Since the Borough Police Initiative the centre of Croydon has enjoyed a disproportionate amount of police against those posted elsewhere.

The Safer Neighbourhood Teams are good but cannot be everywhere on their 'ground assigned.'

Whilst ringfenced there will be reasons why they will be removed tasked elsewhere.

This disprortionate spread of manpower is at cost to residential areas; at least a shop can get security men in even if it is taken out of profit.

Whinging shopkeepers - they'll have to improve profit levels to pay for this additional policing and not with a cost passed to Croydon Residential Council Tax payers.

Personally, I don't shop in Croydon Centre; it's a dump as far as I'm concerned.




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Lucy Smith, croydon says...
4:26pm Tue 8 Apr 08

I read something quite like this a few weeks ago in the advertiser. there the alders man was also blaming the cost of parking for driving people away. I think this is spot on.

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David, Croydon says...
4:37pm Tue 8 Apr 08

The shopping area in Croydon is one of the focal points in the borough, both for residents, and for visitors to Croydon. As such it should be given some priority over other areas, if only due to the sheer volume of people there each day.

Yes, the shops are only really concerned about their profits, but if they can make more elsewhere they will leave, and Croydon will become a ghost town. The nightlife is already a shadow of its former self and more bad press could kill retail.

I am not happy with the decline in Croydon over recent years, but as a resident I will continue to support it and use its amenities whenever possible. While it isn't the best shopping centre it has most of what any person would need, and a few things they won't.

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Hans Datdodishes, Purley says...
4:48pm Tue 8 Apr 08

Croydon's always been a violent dump and a few stabbings/muggings/a
rmed robberies have never detered shoppers before.

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ANNE GILES, BUENOS AIRES says...
10:18pm Tue 8 Apr 08

Well - the cost of parking certainly doesn' put me off - I am quite happy to pay. As far as I am concerned, there are plenty of police around, bu we seem to have residents and shopkeepers who expect each and every officer to have 50 pairs of legs and to be omnipresent (rather like God). This is the real world, for goodness sake.

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ANNE GILES, at present in Buenos Aires says...
10:35pm Tue 8 Apr 08

I am quite happy to pay the parking charges in Croydon. I am also happy with the numbers of officers on our streets. They only have one pair of arms and legs and cannot be expected to be everywhere at once, after all!

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P, says...
9:43am Wed 9 Apr 08

You can waste our tax money and deploy all the police in the world but what good would it be when they have no authority?!!! Kids dont even respect police so why bother?! Croydon is a dump anyway! I went before xmas and I stayed for all but 10 mins and I had to get out of there. Havent been back since and refuse to. The people are so poor!!

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ex-liberal, london says...
11:59am Wed 9 Apr 08

Why has it become necessary to always have police around for people to behave in a civilised manner. Never used to be like that in Croydon

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Mr Evershed, Croydon says...
4:27pm Wed 9 Apr 08

Croydon is simply put an awful area to live in. The local police are well known for their dire clear up rates and appalling response times to emergency incidents

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Kes, Upper Norwood says...
9:27pm Wed 9 Apr 08

Where are the police? They didn't seem to have a problem finding them to protect the Olympic Torch at the week-end. An inner circle of Chinese heavies surrounded by jogging policemen with protective headgear surrounded by another circle of uniformed police. No doubt muggings, knifings and shootings were going on in the real world elsewhere.

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plod, writing room says...
10:25pm Wed 9 Apr 08

Kes wrote:
Where are the police? They didn't seem to have a problem finding them to protect the Olympic Torch at the week-end. An inner circle of Chinese heavies surrounded by jogging policemen with protective headgear surrounded by another circle of uniformed police. No doubt muggings, knifings and shootings were going on in the real world elsewhere.
yeah! like your average police officer has a choice where he/she works!!! WE DONT......... do you think we enjoy our borough turning into a gang land ghetto? 1)its crap for the public. 2)its crap for business. 3) its crap because we want to go home in one piece.

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ANNE GILES, BUENOS AIRES till FRIDAY says...
2:12am Thu 10 Apr 08

I don't know what all the fuss is about. I went into the centre of Buenos Aires today - there was a massive demonstration - beggars everywhere and pickpockets as well. People who criticise Croydon have obviously never travelled.

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Austen, London says...
8:22am Thu 10 Apr 08

Last November, my wife and I witnessed an unprovoked assault at 9.00 in the morning in North End. A man was kicked and punched by some idiot. We helped the victim by calling the police. They couldn't make up their minds about whether to turn up, finally doing so 15 minutes later, and after taking brief details, decided that there wasn't much they could (be bothered) to do. I don't think they even gave the victim a crime number or checked CCTV coverage. We don't simply need more police - we need better policing.

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Bob Peel, Croydon says...
9:42am Thu 10 Apr 08

Well said Plod - but don't stay in the writing room too long otherwise I will claim plagiarism on my original post in this thread.

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Paul, Upper Norwood says...
9:49am Thu 10 Apr 08

ANNE GILES wrote:
I don't know what all the fuss is about. I went into the centre of Buenos Aires today - there was a massive demonstration - beggars everywhere and pickpockets as well. People who criticise Croydon have obviously never travelled.
You assume too much. I'll raise your Argentina (defeated 1982) holiday with my 5 year stay in the Sudan and the Yemen(Aden).

If you want to go with the I've travelled more places than you then go ahead - I live in the places I go - you'll lose hands down.

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tim, croydon says...
1:18pm Thu 10 Apr 08

When I was assaulted by five chavs in Croydon, and spattered in blood, the police laughed at me from their meat wagons. The coppers at the station were not much better - feet on the tables, like in some old Western. About 75% of shoppers in Croydon don't even speak English, either, which makes for an even more hostile atmosphere. Best avoided.

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tim, here says...
1:22pm Thu 10 Apr 08

When I was assualted by five chavs in the town centre, and spattered in blood, the police laughed at me from their meat wagons. Even worse at the station, the coppers there had their feet upon the tables, Western style. Around 75% of people in the town centre don't even speak English, which makes for an even more hostile atmosphere. Get yourself an armoured car - best to avoid the place, really.

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ANNE GILES, BUENOS AIRES says...
1:54pm Thu 10 Apr 08

I fail to see how not being able to speak English can make an atmosphere hostile. Perhaps if the English were less lazy and learned other languages then they might be able to communicate. Your ideas about police not doing their jobs properly is a total fantasy. All the ones I deal with work extremely hard.

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Kes, Upper Norwood says...
8:55pm Thu 10 Apr 08

I fail to see how not being able to speak English can make an atmosphere hostile. Perhaps if the English were less lazy and learned other languages then they might be able to communicate. Your ideas about police not doing their jobs properly is a total fantasy. All the ones I deal with work extremely hard.

communications, my dear girl! We are in the fortunate position of having no shortage of people (outside the UK) who want to speak English. We have no need to learn Guru, for example!

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ANNE GILES, BUENOS AIRES says...
10:36pm Thu 10 Apr 08

But English is not the master language of the world. So why don't you learn another language my friend? If you went to live in Keyna, for example, you wouldn't get bunch of idiots insisting that you must speak their language in case they thought you were hostile and a possible criminal?????

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Uncleboko, BelgranoR, Buenos Aires says...
11:04pm Thu 10 Apr 08

"You assume too much. I'll raise your Argentina (defeated 1982)"

Oh dear - stupid boy, that is the typical uneducated comment one hears in England. You just have no idea how welcoming the Argentines are to English folks.

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Paul, Upper Norwood says...
7:49am Fri 11 Apr 08

Uncleboko wrote:
"You assume too much. I'll raise your Argentina (defeated 1982)"

Oh dear - stupid boy, that is the typical uneducated comment one hears in England. You just have no idea how welcoming the Argentines are to English folks.
Belgrano - Gotcha!!!!
(Amidships and astern I think).

"You just have no idea how welcoming the Argentines are to English folks."

Oh yes I have........

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Croyboy, says...
8:13am Fri 11 Apr 08

Anne Giles wrote:
I don't know what all the fuss is about. I went into the centre of Buenos Aires today - there was a massive demonstration - beggars everywhere and pickpockets as well.

Yes, Anne, but we are not supposed to be in the Third World!


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P, says...
9:35am Fri 11 Apr 08

Anne - how many languages are we supposed to learn?! Polish, Albanian, Romanian, Russian, Afrikans??
And when I do travel I make the effort to learn the language.
So why dont all the foreigners in this country learn ENGLISH?!

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Paul, Upper Norwood says...
9:54am Fri 11 Apr 08

P wrote:
Anne - how many languages are we supposed to learn?! Polish, Albanian, Romanian, Russian, Afrikans??
And when I do travel I make the effort to learn the language.
So why dont all the foreigners in this country learn ENGLISH?!
P, you left out Swahili and a mass of other local tongues spoken in Africa.

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Croyboy, says...
12:05pm Fri 11 Apr 08

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why the lingua franca is English - so the peoples of the world are able to communicate with each other without having to learn a plethora of tongues.
...Although one wouldn't think so living in Croydon!


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John, says...
1:11pm Fri 11 Apr 08

I don't know what all the fuss is about. I went into the centre of Buenos Aires today.

And you found nothing better to do then read this site and post messages. Reminds me of the people who go away and sit round the hotel pool for two weeks then come back and say what a great country they have just been to.

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lauren, sutton says...
6:14pm Fri 11 Apr 08

ANNE GILES wrote:
But English is not the master language of the world. So why don\'t you learn another language my friend? If you went to live in Keyna, for example, you wouldn\'t get bunch of idiots insisting that you must speak their language in case they thought you were hostile and a possible criminal?????
Do us all a favour and stop keep on about all other countries. We are not interested in where you have been and as we live in GB we speak english!!!!

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What is happening, London says...
7:15pm Fri 11 Apr 08

Anne the Police do work very hard - most of them, but as with every walk of life, there are those that do not.

Please take off your rose coloured spectacles, as lovely as you think the world is, please take a long hard look at the area we are talking about. It isn't Selsdon or Buenos Aires dear, it's our reality on a daily basis.

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ANNE GILES, BACK IN SELSDON says...
12:29pm Sat 12 Apr 08

Yawn!!

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What is happening, London says...
3:29pm Sat 12 Apr 08

What a very juvenile response from someone supposedly so grown up. Still I guess it's an improvement from your usual narrow minded track.

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ANNE GILES, SELSDON says...
10:05pm Sun 13 Apr 08

I think you will find that the narrow minded ones are the negative people posting on these web pages, making racist comments, going on and on about wanting everyone in Croydon to be English, hating the wonderful foreigners who bring so much to our area, criticising our wonderful police force who all work extremely hard, and then writing comments insisting that our crime rates are high when they are not. I am very, very broadminded.

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Businesses fear shoppers will go elsewhere because of the perception of crime in Croydon Businesses fear shoppers will go elsewhere because of the perception of crime in Croydon

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