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Teens to pick criminal record or the scouts


Teenage tearaways arrested by police will be offered the choice of a criminal record or three months in the scouts, according to a new scheme.

Kids who find themselves in trouble with the law for offences as serious as robbery, burglary and assault could sign up to a uniformed youth group to escape official police cautions.

If the child completes the term the caution is never given and the child avoids a criminal record, instead enjoying the chance of activities such as camping, hiking and sailing as part of the Youth Organisation Uniform (You) initiative.

Started in Croydon, the You project includes not just the scouts but other organisations including the boys’ brigade, girl guides, army cadets, St John’s Ambulance and the air training corps.

You is run by Croydon police sergeant Richard Curran, who will be rolling out the initiative the initiative across London at the Whitgift Centre on Friday, October 11.

He said: “If they agree a timetable of action kids can avoid a final warning. But only if they agree to a programme of activities.”

Sgt Curran said there was no set criteria for what offences kids might be referred to the project for.

He added: “Each child will be taken on an individual basis. It is really designed for antisocial behaviour.

“We will look at the circumstances, their attitude to the crime they have committed, the risks and ask the child if they want to live that sort of life still.”

Sgt Curran admitted even children caught carrying knives could be allowed into the scheme if they met the criteria.

He said: “A child would have to join the organisation for three months. We would go back in three months’ time and they would have to provide evidence that they have done this and that.

“It provides a long-term solution to the problems these kids have and changes their attitude.”

Sgt Curran said he had already seen children at risk of becoming criminals go through these organisations and turn their lives around.

And he dismissed fears the children might be disruptive, saying if one organisation is not right they could be moved to say the army cadets to get more discipline instilled in them.

Dean Milton, the Scout Association’s regional commissioner for London, said: “The You Project is very much about uniformed organisations having a bigger voice in London on matters relating to young people.

“There is no specific policy to work with ‘young criminals’ however working with the local police neighbourhood teams, there is scope to offer young people in the community the opportunity to join one of several organisations in the hope that this diverts their energies into a more structured pastime.

“This is no different to our normal policy of being open to all regardless of background.”

• What do you think of the plan? Let us know in the comments section below.



Your Say YourCroydon

ANNE GILES, SELSDON says...
10:26am Wed 1 Oct 08

Excellent. I had spoken to Richard Curran some months ago about this, and offered to help in whichever way I could. I think this will really work for many of these children. Congratulations, Richard, on everything you are doing!!

ric, kingston says...
11:22am Wed 1 Oct 08

having both been to the scouts and been given a criminal record.

i'd take the criminal record.

upper borewood, Croydon says...
12:10pm Wed 1 Oct 08

So on Bob a Job week the kids will be legitimately scoping properties to ransack later!

ANNE GILES, SELSDON says...
12:53pm Wed 1 Oct 08

Both my father and father-in-law were scoutmasters and the boys had a simply fabulous time! Most kids would prefer not to have a criminal record, anyway, and most kids have a lot of good in them. Encouraged by the right adults, they'll do fine. We were all children once and I am sure most of us were nice ones.

Bob Peel, Croydon says...
12:59pm Wed 1 Oct 08

This is not as daft as it sounds. I would suggest the Cadet forces are an adequate alternative.

At a council meeting I suggested a hobbies display to get these scrotes involved with and all the council rep could come up with was, "There's details of interest groups in the local libraries."

Pretty good when most of these errant scrotes would never ask about other interests, let alone enter a Library!


ANNE GILES, SELSDON says...
1:44pm Wed 1 Oct 08

True, Bob. I usually talk to children and teenagers and give them the info personally. I was once told the info was in our local gazette and in the local paper, which none of them read.

Pink Lady, Croydon/Kingston says...
5:27pm Wed 1 Oct 08

Please do not inflict these hooligans on the Scout Association GirlGuiding UK, or any other organisation. Young people join these organisations because they want to. Please lets keep it that way!

ANNE GILES, SELSDON says...
6:27pm Wed 1 Oct 08

They are not hooligans, just misguided. They will be fine.

SJR, surrey says...
6:41pm Wed 1 Oct 08

The article is inaccurate of what it says about the project YOU and I would advise people to seek out the correct information before passing judgement on the project. Sgt Curran is not one to bean bag anyone he is someone who believes in setting the misguided on the right path and Project YOU can if given the chance and promoted by press with the positive side of it. I dont believe the project is aimed at criminals its aimed at putting those who are going in that direction on the right track before they get that far. All the organisations are finally pulling together to give every youngster a place somewhere that they can fit and be part of something good. Bad news may sell but in this case I would go to the Met - Sgt Curran or anyone connected to the project and ask for the facts not half truths.

SJR, surrey says...
6:54pm Wed 1 Oct 08

People have to understand that if you are given a Caution you go back out on the street and carry on down that crocked path! A uniformed organisation gives structure and guidance and disicipine which alot of todays youngsters lack. No one is suggesting avoid a prison sentence and join the Scouts they are saying you could be alot more than bored and troublesome and enjoy being part of something that teaches you life skills and how to take pride in who you are! If someone takes part and thrives within one of these organisations that is one less criminal in the making instead someone who might have a chance at a future!

ANNE GILES, SELSDON says...
9:34pm Wed 1 Oct 08

SJR - good for you! There are too many negative people about, unfortunately.

Pink Lady, Croydon/Kingston says...
6:36am Thu 2 Oct 08

Hope they are going to pay the leaders of these organisations well (the same as the prison officers) as I understand at the moment these organisations are run by volunteers.

SJR, surrey says...
7:30am Thu 2 Oct 08

Again the negative and the pound note! The whole issue is the Project being seen for the positive impact it can have on our society. This Project is made up with the people that run these organisations and they are there doing what they do to contribute and try and turn around these younsters! Who reaps the benefit those people who live around them. Everyone is quick to complain about the youths around them but how many people do anything to change it? These organisations thats who! Anyone heard of being charitable or is there to many people out there who see a crime taking place and shut their curtains and turn up the radio because they just dont want to get involved - garanteed they would be the first screaming up about the Police and posting on sites like this. For all those doubters what do you do that makes a difference to change what we see and read? Rather than put down the idea why dont you support the idea and see if it changes thing or better still go down to the ATC, Sea Cadets, Scouts or any uniform organisation and speak to hose who give up there time because they know what they do makes a difference.

cr2, Croydon says...
8:47am Thu 2 Oct 08

APproved schools or borstal is my idea of short sharp lesson followed by TA traing to respect queen and country also community work helping the elderley and such like is a good way to teach those that there parents have left for us to sort out there problems.Thank you

ANNE GILES, SELSDON says...
9:05am Thu 2 Oct 08

comment_6870273_full wrote:
Again the negative and the pound note! The whole issue is the Project being seen for the positive impact it can have on our society. This Project is made up with the people that run these organisations and they are there doing what they do to contribute and try and turn around these younsters! Who reaps the benefit those people who live around them. Everyone is quick to complain about the youths around them but how many people do anything to change it? These organisations thats who! Anyone heard of being charitable or is there to many people out there who see a crime taking place and shut their curtains and turn up the radio because they just dont want to get involved - garanteed they would be the first screaming up about the Police and posting on sites like this. For all those doubters what do you do that makes a difference to change what we see and read? Rather than put down the idea why dont you support the idea and see if it changes thing or better still go down to the ATC, Sea Cadets, Scouts or any uniform organisation and speak to hose who give up there time because they know what they do makes a difference.
Hear, hear. Unfortunately, there are too many negative people out there. I spend half my time doing voluntary stuff, as well as working, but I find that people just shut themselves behind their curtains watching TV, seeing and hearing nothing, and then complaining because they want police to have fifty pairs of arms and legs and be everywhere at once.

Pink Lady, Croydon/Kingston says...
9:50am Thu 2 Oct 08

Bring back National Service but get it started in the schools (year 9) and I don't mean just for the boys -( the Sex Discrimination Act is now 33 years old) it seems that girl gangs are just as frightening as the boys - leave the uniform organisations for those who want to join not those who are going to be forced to join.

green goddess, croydon says...
9:59am Thu 2 Oct 08

I dont want to appear to be negative about this new venture, scouts and brownies, air cadets etc these are a great organisations, why are you sending this tearaways to mingle with innocent children, I dread to think what sort of activities they will be running, the naughty kids can teach the other children how to roll joints and be abusive to all adults and hang out on the street all night and carry knives and steal, i feel sorry for all the parents whose children actually attend these activities because they want to because they enjoy it, not because they have to , now they will have all the tearaways mingling with their children, if these kids are stupid enough to do these crimes, then they should be given work to do, make them clean streets pick up rubbish, clean up all the graffiti, and repair all the windows and bus stops that they smash up, wouldnt this be more appropriate ?

ANNE GILES, SELSDON says...
10:38am Thu 2 Oct 08

They are not being forced to join the scouts, they are being given that as an option. Some of you are treating these kids as if they are bad. They are not bad - just misguided, and need to be pointed in the right direction.

ric, kingston says...
11:15am Thu 2 Oct 08

SJR you say 'People have to understand that if you are given a Caution you go back out on the street and carry on down that crocked path! '

thats rubbish. most people who get arrested, taken home to their parents and given a caution usually find it enough to shock them into not doing a bad thing again.

you will always have kids who will commite crime after crime and go on to bigger uglier things. they are the people you dont want to take down the scout hut.

you can't just lump everyone in with one type of person. most kids just need a little guidence when they stray from the path.

i got a caution when i was 15 for riding a moped down the A3 with no crash helemt on. yes it was silly, yes it was illegal. but until you get dragged home to your parents by the police and told off. you wont learn.

im now a professional stunt rider and im constantly passing on my experiences to keen young riders about the dangers of riding illegaly as a teenager.

the article says that an assesment will be made of the child before they get given the option. so im pretty sure a kid with a history of setting fire to stuff wouldnt be let in the scouts for example!

unless anyone else has a better idea. maybe this wouldnt be such a bad thing.

ric, kingston says...
2:08pm Thu 2 Oct 08

ah well they scrapped it now anyway...lol

SJR, surrey says...
2:19pm Thu 2 Oct 08

I agree alot of kids taken home to their parents by police with be deterred from doing it again and as said in earlier comments not all kids are bad some misguided. Some kids are a bit like sheep they are not bad kids just easily led and misguided and not all parents are mortified that their kids are brought home by police so they are the ones that benefit from an organisation. The Met are taking positive action Sgt Curran has come up with an idea and its a good one! It is a working progress but everyone involved understands the concept and are pulling together to make this happen. There is not going to be an influx of scum there will be an influx of kids who are willing to try taking a opportunity that maybe they have not been offered before, they will be assessed to see if that child is suitable not a risk to others. Lets not forget we are talking about children not hardened criminals here. People can learn from their mistakes and turn it into something positive. That kids who may like jumping on garage roofs may find it more fun absailing, adventure training within an organisation.

SJR, surrey says...
2:26pm Thu 2 Oct 08

Well we shall see! Maybe the Met will give their own press release and explain the Project and its aim rather than carefully edited press !

PeterM, Wallington says...
11:10am Fri 3 Oct 08

It is true to say that Scouting offers a great foundation for young people, instilling discipline and a sense of goodwill to others, but it does so because the children want to attend.

I can see where this Police Officer is coming from, but feel that if this initiative is adopted then special groups are set up, or otherwise parents of existing members will withdraw their children. It is also possible that current leaders may feel that this is a step too far and walk themselves.

As a Cub Leader I have seen a number of leaders leave the Association after girls were admitted.

Nice idea, but it won't work.

ANNE GILES, SELSDON says...
2:47pm Fri 3 Oct 08

Sorry - what is wrong with girls????? That is prejudice.

PeterM, Wallington says...
4:33pm Fri 3 Oct 08

ANNE GILES wrote:
Sorry - what is wrong with girls????? That is prejudice.
In my opinion absolutely nothing. In my pack of 30 cubs I have 6 girls, and in our beaver colony we have roughly half and half. However, some Leaders are very old school and feel that Scouting is for Boys and Guiding is for Girls.

What many don't realise is that when Baden Powell originally set up Scouts he wanted to include girls but in Edwardian Britain this was frowned upon so Guides were set up for them.

ANNE GILES, SELSDON says...
6:41pm Fri 3 Oct 08

A bit like Morris dancing. Many Morris dancing groups exclude women. The one my husband and I used to play for had both. Mind you, I went to a school that would not allow boys anywhere near it and we were punished if we were seen talking to boys within a mile radius of the school. Luckily, a boys' school raided us and it was great fun, with our headmistress trying to chase them away.

Pink Lady, Croydon/Kingston says...
9:23am Sat 4 Oct 08

I agree wholeheartedly with Peter. These organisations such as The Scout Association are already short of leaders they really don't need to lose any more. I fear this would happen if the project went ahead.

Your sayYour Croydon

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Troublemakers could be offered the chance to join uniformed youth groups Be prepared: Sergeant Richard Curran (inset) is hoping young tearaways will be able to join children like these pictured at the launch of You earlier

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